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	<title>Comments on: Third Hand Plays: “Big Cradle” by Erik Loyer</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%E2%80%9Cbig-cradle%E2%80%9D-by-erik-loyer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/</link>
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		<title>By: Judy Malloy</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/comment-page-1/#comment-109681</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Malloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 03:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=30255#comment-109681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are many others, but here are two more critical articles:

_Rita Raley, Reveal Codes: Hypertext and Performance [1]
http://pmc.iath.virginia.edu/text-only/issue.901/12.1raley.txt
_Owen, Megan Illusions of Democracy in Hypertext Fiction
http://genre.dukejournals.org/content/41/3-4/177.full.pdf+html
Genre: Forms of Discourse and Culture: 41:177-200, 2008
discusses authorial control; interesting from the point of view of how the new media writer shapes reader participation in the work and how that impacts the critical framework.

First person accounts are also of particular interest. At this rather wonderful stage of  
exploration, a writer&#039;s narrative of how a work was created is also important. Here are
two from Authoring Software and one from Visible Language:

_Fox Harrell, The GRIOT System, Authoring Software, 2010
http://www.narrabase.net/elit_software.html#harrell
_Adriene Jenik, MAUVE DESERT Authoring Software, 2011
http://www.narrabase.net/adriene_jenik.html
_Jim Rosenberg, The Interactive Diagram Sentence: Hypertext as a Medium of Thought
http://www.well.com/user/jer/VL.html
Visible Language 30.2, 1996

And then there there are online interviews and discussions, writers and artists 
talking about their work. The first is relatively formal; the second is very informal.

_Jennifer Ley, Lit [art] ure -- Something Old, Something New a Round Table Discussion 
with Loss Pequeno Glazier; Judy Malloy, Johanna Drucker; and Mark Amerika 
http://www.heelstone.com/meridian/rtable4.html
Riding the Meridian, v. 2, 2000. 
_A Conversation with Sara Roberts, on the Interactive Art Conference on Arts Wire
June 1996 -- http://www.well.com/~couey/interactive/sara.html

So, yes there are excellent critical articles in the field and additionally there 
are new approaches to art criticism and understanding.

Such as the SFMOMA Blog, of course!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many others, but here are two more critical articles:</p>
<p>_Rita Raley, Reveal Codes: Hypertext and Performance [1]<br />
<a href="http://pmc.iath.virginia.edu/text-only/issue.901/12.1raley.txt" rel="nofollow">http://pmc.iath.virginia.edu/text-only/issue.901/12.1raley.txt</a><br />
_Owen, Megan Illusions of Democracy in Hypertext Fiction<br />
<a href="http://genre.dukejournals.org/content/41/3-4/177.full.pdf+html" rel="nofollow">http://genre.dukejournals.org/content/41/3-4/177.full.pdf+html</a><br />
Genre: Forms of Discourse and Culture: 41:177-200, 2008<br />
discusses authorial control; interesting from the point of view of how the new media writer shapes reader participation in the work and how that impacts the critical framework.</p>
<p>First person accounts are also of particular interest. At this rather wonderful stage of<br />
exploration, a writer&#8217;s narrative of how a work was created is also important. Here are<br />
two from Authoring Software and one from Visible Language:</p>
<p>_Fox Harrell, The GRIOT System, Authoring Software, 2010<br />
<a href="http://www.narrabase.net/elit_software.html#harrell" rel="nofollow">http://www.narrabase.net/elit_software.html#harrell</a><br />
_Adriene Jenik, MAUVE DESERT Authoring Software, 2011<br />
<a href="http://www.narrabase.net/adriene_jenik.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.narrabase.net/adriene_jenik.html</a><br />
_Jim Rosenberg, The Interactive Diagram Sentence: Hypertext as a Medium of Thought<br />
<a href="http://www.well.com/user/jer/VL.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.well.com/user/jer/VL.html</a><br />
Visible Language 30.2, 1996</p>
<p>And then there there are online interviews and discussions, writers and artists<br />
talking about their work. The first is relatively formal; the second is very informal.</p>
<p>_Jennifer Ley, Lit [art] ure &#8212; Something Old, Something New a Round Table Discussion<br />
with Loss Pequeno Glazier; Judy Malloy, Johanna Drucker; and Mark Amerika<br />
<a href="http://www.heelstone.com/meridian/rtable4.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.heelstone.com/meridian/rtable4.html</a><br />
Riding the Meridian, v. 2, 2000.<br />
_A Conversation with Sara Roberts, on the Interactive Art Conference on Arts Wire<br />
June 1996 &#8212; <a href="http://www.well.com/~couey/interactive/sara.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.well.com/~couey/interactive/sara.html</a></p>
<p>So, yes there are excellent critical articles in the field and additionally there<br />
are new approaches to art criticism and understanding.</p>
<p>Such as the SFMOMA Blog, of course!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Judy Malloy</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/comment-page-1/#comment-109377</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Malloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 05:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=30255#comment-109377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It would be nice to have an anthology, that&#039;s a good idea, Brian! 
There is quite a lot of literary criticism about Eastgate&#039;s publications,
and there is a substantial body of very good criticism on hypertext literature in general.

To begin with writer/critic Robert Coover wrote series of articles in the New York Times and elsewhere which covered  Michael Joyce&#039;s Afternoon, Stuart Moulthrop&#039;s Victory Garden, my own its name was Penelope, and Shelley Jackson&#039;s Patchwork Girl among others. And critic and theorist Jaishree Odin has written extensively about hypertext literature, often with a focus on Eastgate authors:

Jaishree K. Odin, Hypertext and the Female Imaginary, University of Minnesota Press, 2010
http://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/hypertext-and-the-female-imaginary
which covers the work of four  Eastgate authors: Judy Malloy, Shelley Jackson, Stephanie Strickland, and M. D. Coverly,
and
Jaishree K. Odin, &quot;The Edge of Difference: Negotiations Between the Hypertextual and the Postcolonial&quot;, 
MFS Modern Fiction Studies - Volume 43, Number 3, Fall 1997, pp. 598-630
includes its name was Penelope 
and
Jaishree K. Odin, &quot;Embodiment and Narrative Performance&quot; , 
in  Women, Art &amp; Technology,  edited by Judy Malloy. Cambridge, MA, MIT Press, 2003  pp 452-465
focuses on Jackson&#039;s  Patchwork Girl.
 
There are many more critics in the field. Will post a few more and further thoughts as soon as I finish the liner notes for the second Edition of its name was Penelope.

It is a pleasure to review the critical writing about all kinds of new media literature, and 
most importantly to read the works themselves!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be nice to have an anthology, that&#8217;s a good idea, Brian!<br />
There is quite a lot of literary criticism about Eastgate&#8217;s publications,<br />
and there is a substantial body of very good criticism on hypertext literature in general.</p>
<p>To begin with writer/critic Robert Coover wrote series of articles in the New York Times and elsewhere which covered  Michael Joyce&#8217;s Afternoon, Stuart Moulthrop&#8217;s Victory Garden, my own its name was Penelope, and Shelley Jackson&#8217;s Patchwork Girl among others. And critic and theorist Jaishree Odin has written extensively about hypertext literature, often with a focus on Eastgate authors:</p>
<p>Jaishree K. Odin, Hypertext and the Female Imaginary, University of Minnesota Press, 2010<br />
<a href="http://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/hypertext-and-the-female-imaginary" rel="nofollow">http://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/hypertext-and-the-female-imaginary</a><br />
which covers the work of four  Eastgate authors: Judy Malloy, Shelley Jackson, Stephanie Strickland, and M. D. Coverly,<br />
and<br />
Jaishree K. Odin, &#8220;The Edge of Difference: Negotiations Between the Hypertextual and the Postcolonial&#8221;,<br />
MFS Modern Fiction Studies &#8211; Volume 43, Number 3, Fall 1997, pp. 598-630<br />
includes its name was Penelope<br />
and<br />
Jaishree K. Odin, &#8220;Embodiment and Narrative Performance&#8221; ,<br />
in  Women, Art &amp; Technology,  edited by Judy Malloy. Cambridge, MA, MIT Press, 2003  pp 452-465<br />
focuses on Jackson&#8217;s  Patchwork Girl.</p>
<p>There are many more critics in the field. Will post a few more and further thoughts as soon as I finish the liner notes for the second Edition of its name was Penelope.</p>
<p>It is a pleasure to review the critical writing about all kinds of new media literature, and<br />
most importantly to read the works themselves!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Stefans</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/comment-page-1/#comment-109326</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Stefans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=30255#comment-109326</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I should also note that I focus as well on writing practices -- how technology has changed the way someone writes even when not engaged with computers. It seems to me that computer platforms like Storyspace should have some effect on prose stylistics. If you know of any text that discusses the necessities and possibilities of hypertext prose -- how one needs to write to make it work -- let me know!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should also note that I focus as well on writing practices &#8212; how technology has changed the way someone writes even when not engaged with computers. It seems to me that computer platforms like Storyspace should have some effect on prose stylistics. If you know of any text that discusses the necessities and possibilities of hypertext prose &#8212; how one needs to write to make it work &#8212; let me know!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Stefans</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/comment-page-1/#comment-109325</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Stefans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 01:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=30255#comment-109325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for you comment, Judy. Yes, I&#039;m focusing a lot on the visual, but I am also focusing on interactivity -- most of the pieces tweak the conventions of point-and-click -- and context -- taking the realm of the web as a public space which the works respond to -- which I think has been under-emphasized. Most if not all of the artists I&#039;m looking at actually create their own authoring software, so I&#039;m not sure why you think I am departing so much from the &quot;core&quot; as you describe it.

The problem for me is that I don&#039;t see a lot of criticism on hypertext work that deals with the content of the texts itself. I collected a lot of material about some of those early Eastgate works and the writing -- even when the work&#039;s name appeared in title -- seemed more interested in describing the properties of hypertext rather than what someone had done with it. I&#039;d love to see an anthology of real literary criticism of the works at Eastgate, for example, which takes them seriously as art, gauging success and failure, rather than examples illustrating some property of text and technology. It would be useful also as a buyer&#039;s guide, since there is a lot of work there, but given the fact that we can&#039;t pass around old, expired disks of hypertext works (like you can used books), there isn&#039;t a lot of that &quot;folk&quot; information, word of mouth, to go by or chance to browse. 

Nick Montfort wrote a really nice book on IF, Twisty Little Passages, which I highly recommend; the IF community seems to be quite lively. I probably won&#039;t get to IF in my posts but your link is a good start. Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for you comment, Judy. Yes, I&#8217;m focusing a lot on the visual, but I am also focusing on interactivity &#8212; most of the pieces tweak the conventions of point-and-click &#8212; and context &#8212; taking the realm of the web as a public space which the works respond to &#8212; which I think has been under-emphasized. Most if not all of the artists I&#8217;m looking at actually create their own authoring software, so I&#8217;m not sure why you think I am departing so much from the &#8220;core&#8221; as you describe it.</p>
<p>The problem for me is that I don&#8217;t see a lot of criticism on hypertext work that deals with the content of the texts itself. I collected a lot of material about some of those early Eastgate works and the writing &#8212; even when the work&#8217;s name appeared in title &#8212; seemed more interested in describing the properties of hypertext rather than what someone had done with it. I&#8217;d love to see an anthology of real literary criticism of the works at Eastgate, for example, which takes them seriously as art, gauging success and failure, rather than examples illustrating some property of text and technology. It would be useful also as a buyer&#8217;s guide, since there is a lot of work there, but given the fact that we can&#8217;t pass around old, expired disks of hypertext works (like you can used books), there isn&#8217;t a lot of that &#8220;folk&#8221; information, word of mouth, to go by or chance to browse. </p>
<p>Nick Montfort wrote a really nice book on IF, Twisty Little Passages, which I highly recommend; the IF community seems to be quite lively. I probably won&#8217;t get to IF in my posts but your link is a good start. Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Judy Malloy</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2011/08/third-hand-plays-%e2%80%9cbig-cradle%e2%80%9d-by-erik-loyer/comment-page-1/#comment-109309</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Malloy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2011 03:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=30255#comment-109309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Electronic literature is many things, including  the interesting work that Brian Kim Stefans has 
brought to the forefront here.  In general, art museums are inclined to focus on works with visual components; this, of course, is what they do.  To a certain extent screen-based literature is inherently visual and works with strong visual arts components are important and welcome in the field.

But I would like to note that the core of the field is computer-mediated works of literature and word works.   Coupled with a growing interest in new writers whose focus is on creating new media literature, as well new explorations in literate code and the workings of  code, the current resurgence of interest in new media writing  includes a relook at classic works  --- such as the seminal hyperfiction published by Eastgate and works created in the early days on Art Com Electronic Network, (based here in the Bay area) such as Interactive fiction, generative  poetry, and social media interventions. 

It is a pleasure to continue to write new media literature,  and also it is a pleasure to focus on how works of electronic literature are created, as Authoring Software -- http://www.narrabase.net  -- continues to do 
By which I mean that  I&#039;d like to thank SFMOMA and Brian Kim Stefans for hosting/writing this blog and at the same time to remind readers that there are many different approaches to new media writing,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Electronic literature is many things, including  the interesting work that Brian Kim Stefans has<br />
brought to the forefront here.  In general, art museums are inclined to focus on works with visual components; this, of course, is what they do.  To a certain extent screen-based literature is inherently visual and works with strong visual arts components are important and welcome in the field.</p>
<p>But I would like to note that the core of the field is computer-mediated works of literature and word works.   Coupled with a growing interest in new writers whose focus is on creating new media literature, as well new explorations in literate code and the workings of  code, the current resurgence of interest in new media writing  includes a relook at classic works  &#8212; such as the seminal hyperfiction published by Eastgate and works created in the early days on Art Com Electronic Network, (based here in the Bay area) such as Interactive fiction, generative  poetry, and social media interventions. </p>
<p>It is a pleasure to continue to write new media literature,  and also it is a pleasure to focus on how works of electronic literature are created, as Authoring Software &#8212; <a href="http://www.narrabase.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.narrabase.net</a>  &#8212; continues to do<br />
By which I mean that  I&#8217;d like to thank SFMOMA and Brian Kim Stefans for hosting/writing this blog and at the same time to remind readers that there are many different approaches to new media writing,</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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