<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: &#8220;The Punishment Begins&#8221;</title> <atom:link href="http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/</link> <description></description> <lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 16:30:43 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator> <item><title>By: Rainer Fassbinder: The enfant terrible of the German cinema &#124; The Dude&#039;s Talk</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-152450</link> <dc:creator>Rainer Fassbinder: The enfant terrible of the German cinema &#124; The Dude&#039;s Talk</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 05 Mar 2013 20:29:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-152450</guid> <description><![CDATA[[...] Fassbinder works are usually divided in tree periods: The avant-garde films (1969–1971), which most important work is the movie ‘Love is Colder than Death’; German melodramas (1971–1975), marked by movies such as ‘The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant’ (1972), ‘World on a Wire’, ‘Fear Eats the Soul’. And International films (1976–1982) with the movies ‘Germany in Autumn’, ‘The Marriage of Maria Braun’ and his masterpiece ‘Berlin Alexanderplatz’. (TFF, 2010) _Berlin Alexanderplatz_ [...]]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fassbinder works are usually divided in tree periods: The avant-garde films (1969–1971), which most important work is the movie ‘Love is Colder than Death’; German melodramas (1971–1975), marked by movies such as ‘The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant’ (1972), ‘World on a Wire’, ‘Fear Eats the Soul’. And International films (1976–1982) with the movies ‘Germany in Autumn’, ‘The Marriage of Maria Braun’ and his masterpiece ‘Berlin Alexanderplatz’. (TFF, 2010) _Berlin Alexanderplatz_ [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link> <dc:creator>Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:06:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-300</guid> <description><![CDATA[Yes, I think we agree. My concern was that by thinking you know a character, especially at this stage, you reduce that space of which you speak.  It is essential to keep that open as long as possible in order to plumb the depths that Dublin and Fassbinder are providing. Judgement is another restrictor as well.
Looking at a painting of roses one might say &quot;Oh, I just love roses&quot;,  or &quot;I have never really liked roses.&quot;
Neither attitude would say anything about the painting.Spokesperson in the sense that much of the descriptive passages of Berlin at that time as made by Doblin Fassbinder has put into the mouth of Biberkopf.
Other descriptive passages are heard as if on a radio, or being read from a newspaper.It is interesting that in the Job episode in the fourth book it appears just as dialogue between &#039;Job&#039; and &#039;Satan&#039;.  Interesting that Fassbinder sets it to a candlelit card game.
At its conclusion we see Biberkopf at his lowest, and finally he is told that he must help himself.
Later in subsequent scenes he is much better.  Has lost some weight, has positive energy etc.  So, are we to conclude that he did? Help himself?  If that is the case his character is now even more complex.  He may be part beast, but he is not simple.Music
The comedic aspects of the passing of the women, the scene with the newspaperman (the new reciipient of Franze),the dishwater coffee and laughable trumped up quarrel are  accompanied throughout by a most ominous music undercurrent, implying that someone will get hurt, perhaps even killed.Often music is in opposition to the scenes, a Brechtian technique, but in this case, to expand the emotional state, rather than to prevent one.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I think we agree. My concern was that by thinking you know a character, especially at this stage, you reduce that space of which you speak.  It is essential to keep that open as long as possible in order to plumb the depths that Dublin and Fassbinder are providing. Judgement is another restrictor as well.<br
/> Looking at a painting of roses one might say &#8220;Oh, I just love roses&#8221;,  or &#8220;I have never really liked roses.&#8221;<br
/> Neither attitude would say anything about the painting.</p><p>Spokesperson in the sense that much of the descriptive passages of Berlin at that time as made by Doblin Fassbinder has put into the mouth of Biberkopf.<br
/> Other descriptive passages are heard as if on a radio, or being read from a newspaper.</p><p>It is interesting that in the Job episode in the fourth book it appears just as dialogue between &#8216;Job&#8217; and &#8216;Satan&#8217;.  Interesting that Fassbinder sets it to a candlelit card game.<br
/> At its conclusion we see Biberkopf at his lowest, and finally he is told that he must help himself.<br
/> Later in subsequent scenes he is much better.  Has lost some weight, has positive energy etc.  So, are we to conclude that he did? Help himself?  If that is the case his character is now even more complex.  He may be part beast, but he is not simple.</p><p>Music<br
/> The comedic aspects of the passing of the women, the scene with the newspaperman (the new reciipient of Franze),</p><p> the dishwater coffee and laughable trumped up quarrel are  accompanied throughout by a most ominous music undercurrent, implying that someone will get hurt, perhaps even killed.</p><p>Often music is in opposition to the scenes, a Brechtian technique, but in this case, to expand the emotional state, rather than to prevent one.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Csailers</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link> <dc:creator>Csailers</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:18:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-299</guid> <description><![CDATA[I&#039;m responding to Fabrizio&#039;s comment: Interesting how eager viewers are to analyze and define the characters. I think that greatly reduces the possibilities of the experience. Attitudes like “He is a real bastard.” “He doesn’t have a sense of his own identity.” etc. really say nothing except about the viewer.I disagree.I think opening up a space around his identity (to explain his confusional states, his dissociation--the ruptures of a clearly defined subjectivity), as well as to suggest ways he fumbles to find himself in social positions allows for more possibility in understanding his character. The classic problem of the label:the  criminal. I&#039;m also curious what you are thinking when you refer to him as a &quot;spokesperson for his era.&quot;]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m responding to Fabrizio&#8217;s comment: Interesting how eager viewers are to analyze and define the characters. I think that greatly reduces the possibilities of the experience. Attitudes like “He is a real bastard.” “He doesn’t have a sense of his own identity.” etc. really say nothing except about the viewer.</p><p>I disagree.</p><p>I think opening up a space around his identity (to explain his confusional states, his dissociation&#8211;the ruptures of a clearly defined subjectivity), as well as to suggest ways he fumbles to find himself in social positions allows for more possibility in understanding his character. The classic problem of the label:the  criminal. I&#8217;m also curious what you are thinking when you refer to him as a &#8220;spokesperson for his era.&#8221;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link> <dc:creator>Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:16:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-298</guid> <description><![CDATA[more on the slaughterhouse:Fassbinder replacing the single calf slaughter by a lamb.The whole scene is very much allegorical to Biberkopf himself.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>more on the slaughterhouse:</p><p>Fassbinder replacing the single calf slaughter by a lamb.</p><p>The whole scene is very much allegorical to Biberkopf himself.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-297</link> <dc:creator>Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 18:14:38 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-297</guid> <description><![CDATA[I   think it might have been guilt.  If the letter he had received was from the widow &#039;buying shoelaces&#039; who subsequently got abused by his cohort, due to his confiding his experience with her, perhaps he assumed responsibility for that and did not want to see her.  Lina.  In the book she is constantly referred to as &#039;Stout Lina&#039;, or &quot;Fat Lina&quot;.  Interesting that in the Fassbinder she is slender and beautiful.I am reading the book simultaneously with the film viewing and it is quite a unique experience.  Usually one reads the book first and then is disappointed in the move.  I saw the first 3 episodes and then began the book.  I was so glad I had done it that way, the book was so enhanced by bringing the film experience to it.  It is amazing the thoroughness of the Fassbinder, he obviously was very devoted to it.
Last nights viewing was proceeded by a little reading.  The Doblin imagery of the slaughterhouse scenes, first the hogs and then the steer, was excruciatingly vivd, and the film did not come close.  This is the first time I have felt that.
The plus about doing the book and the film at the same time, is that you are never in the position of God, i.e. knowing how it is all going to end.Interesting how eager viewers are to analyze and define the characters.  I think that greatly reduces the possibilities of the experience.  Attitudes like  &quot;He is a real bastard.&quot; &quot;He doesn&#039;t have a sense of his own identity.&quot;  etc. really say nothing except about the viewer.  Biberkopf is a spokesman for an era, an extremely complex character, man and beast.  I prefer not to categorize him at this point, it is like trying to make a line drawing of Everyman.Working on a piece called Berlin Sanfranciscoplatz which I will probably post on YouTube since I cannot post it here.and now . . . .   back to the book]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I   think it might have been guilt.  If the letter he had received was from the widow &#8216;buying shoelaces&#8217; who subsequently got abused by his cohort, due to his confiding his experience with her, perhaps he assumed responsibility for that and did not want to see her.  Lina.  In the book she is constantly referred to as &#8216;Stout Lina&#8217;, or &#8220;Fat Lina&#8221;.  Interesting that in the Fassbinder she is slender and beautiful.</p><p>I am reading the book simultaneously with the film viewing and it is quite a unique experience.  Usually one reads the book first and then is disappointed in the move.  I saw the first 3 episodes and then began the book.  I was so glad I had done it that way, the book was so enhanced by bringing the film experience to it.  It is amazing the thoroughness of the Fassbinder, he obviously was very devoted to it.<br
/> Last nights viewing was proceeded by a little reading.  The Doblin imagery of the slaughterhouse scenes, first the hogs and then the steer, was excruciatingly vivd, and the film did not come close.  This is the first time I have felt that.<br
/> The plus about doing the book and the film at the same time, is that you are never in the position of God, i.e. knowing how it is all going to end.</p><p>Interesting how eager viewers are to analyze and define the characters.  I think that greatly reduces the possibilities of the experience.  Attitudes like  &#8220;He is a real bastard.&#8221; &#8220;He doesn&#8217;t have a sense of his own identity.&#8221;  etc. really say nothing except about the viewer.  Biberkopf is a spokesman for an era, an extremely complex character, man and beast.  I prefer not to categorize him at this point, it is like trying to make a line drawing of Everyman.</p><p>Working on a piece called Berlin Sanfranciscoplatz which I will probably post on YouTube since I cannot post it here.</p><p>and now . . . .   back to the book</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Dominic</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-283</link> <dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:30:30 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-283</guid> <description><![CDATA[I have a plot question. In the last episode, why does Franz run out on Lina and disappear? I just got to that part in the book and I still don&#039;t know.  In the book he receives a letter, but it doesn&#039;t say what it says.  Did I miss something, or are we not supposed to know yet?]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a plot question. In the last episode, why does Franz run out on Lina and disappear? I just got to that part in the book and I still don&#8217;t know.  In the book he receives a letter, but it doesn&#8217;t say what it says.  Did I miss something, or are we not supposed to know yet?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-267</link> <dc:creator>Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 00:18:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-267</guid> <description><![CDATA[I have just begun the book, probably won&#039;t catch up to this coming Thursday&#039;s viewing.
There don&#039;t seem to be many bloggers here!  Wonder if that means there was also a small turnout for the post screening drink around the corner.  It was just too late for me, but I am very interested in sharing thoughts on this.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just begun the book, probably won&#8217;t catch up to this coming Thursday&#8217;s viewing.<br
/> There don&#8217;t seem to be many bloggers here!  Wonder if that means there was also a small turnout for the post screening drink around the corner.  It was just too late for me, but I am very interested in sharing thoughts on this.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-250</link> <dc:creator>Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 14:18:22 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-250</guid> <description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t see him as cruel, more as lost.  Cruelty implies a consciousness in harming others, whereas Biberkopf really has no control over his passions and feelings.  Interesting to compare him with Eugene O&quot;Neill&#039;s Hairy Ape, a character unable to understand his own emotions, relatively simple, even endearing.The use of nursery rhymes in these first 3 episodes is very interesting.  Comments?
Also music box sounds.  That giant disc of music spinning behind him -]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see him as cruel, more as lost.  Cruelty implies a consciousness in harming others, whereas Biberkopf really has no control over his passions and feelings.  Interesting to compare him with Eugene O&#8221;Neill&#8217;s Hairy Ape, a character unable to understand his own emotions, relatively simple, even endearing.</p><p>The use of nursery rhymes in these first 3 episodes is very interesting.  Comments?<br
/> Also music box sounds.  That giant disc of music spinning behind him -</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: lani</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-246</link> <dc:creator>lani</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:42:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-246</guid> <description><![CDATA[The mood is so dark,moody, and atmospheric that  the film is almost  unbearable but I stayed for the entire 4 hours glued to my seat.Franz Biberkopf  is   cruel but somehow endearing.]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mood is so dark,moody, and atmospheric that  the film is almost  unbearable but I stayed for the entire 4 hours glued to my seat.Franz Biberkopf  is   cruel but somehow endearing.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Margaret Fabrizio</title><link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/06/the-punishment-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-243</link> <dc:creator>Margaret Fabrizio</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 21:34:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=259#comment-243</guid> <description><![CDATA[I heartily recommend viewing the original film made of the Doblin novel. Directed by Phil Jutzl in 1931, it is available at Netflix under the Fassbinder series, Bonus Materials (disc 7)
Beginning the Fassbinder series  last night I was very glad that I had see the Jutzi a few days earlier.  Very interesting comparisons.  Looking for the book.
Punishment is not a word I would use here.  More likely: fortunate]]></description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heartily recommend viewing the original film made of the Doblin novel. Directed by Phil Jutzl in 1931, it is available at Netflix under the Fassbinder series, Bonus Materials (disc 7)<br
/> Beginning the Fassbinder series  last night I was very glad that I had see the Jutzi a few days earlier.  Very interesting comparisons.  Looking for the book.<br
/> Punishment is not a word I would use here.  More likely: fortunate</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>