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	<title>Comments on: 68 at 40</title>
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	<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/</link>
	<description>............................................................................................."Take your pleasures seriously."....................Charles Eames............................</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 02:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-198</guid>
		<description>&lt;/i&gt;</description>
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		<title>By: Julian</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 00:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-197</guid>
		<description>The quote comes from Fredric Jameson, who wrote in the introduction of &lt;i&gt;The Seeds of Time&lt;i&gt;,

"It seems to be easier for us today to imagine the thoroughgoing deterioration of the earth and of nature than the breakdown of late capitalism; perhaps that is due to some weakness in our imaginations."

It's later quoted in a more aphoristic form by W.J.T. Mitchell and by Zizek in various places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The quote comes from Fredric Jameson, who wrote in the introduction of <i>The Seeds of Time</i><i>,</p>
<p>&#8220;It seems to be easier for us today to imagine the thoroughgoing deterioration of the earth and of nature than the breakdown of late capitalism; perhaps that is due to some weakness in our imaginations.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s later quoted in a more aphoristic form by W.J.T. Mitchell and by Zizek in various places.</i></p>
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		<title>By: timot</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-82</link>
		<dc:creator>timot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 21:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-82</guid>
		<description>@Suzanne,

I lived in the country thru mid-84, after that I've always lived in cities. So I cannot speak for the 'burbs. 

In the country we had cable TV, newspapers etc - everyone I knew loved to talk and hang out. I grew up in what was essentially a Mennonite church, and the Mennonites in the 80s were very politically active. I believe they still are. I didn't feel disconnected from anything. Plus we would all trek to the city frequently (it was only an hour away) to for more culture, entertainment etc.

btw I know I write like an old Andy Rooney-guy, but I'm barely a year older than you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Suzanne,</p>
<p>I lived in the country thru mid-84, after that I&#8217;ve always lived in cities. So I cannot speak for the &#8216;burbs. </p>
<p>In the country we had cable TV, newspapers etc - everyone I knew loved to talk and hang out. I grew up in what was essentially a Mennonite church, and the Mennonites in the 80s were very politically active. I believe they still are. I didn&#8217;t feel disconnected from anything. Plus we would all trek to the city frequently (it was only an hour away) to for more culture, entertainment etc.</p>
<p>btw I know I write like an old Andy Rooney-guy, but I&#8217;m barely a year older than you.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-81</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 19:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-81</guid>
		<description>Tim, yes, you just had to care beyond your class, but in the American suburbs how easy was it to get even a glimpse of anything beyond?  I think what Erika imagines is key, gathering and talking as something primarily different about the 60s---I think no matter what part of the world you're imagining, or from, or what the particular local agendas or problems, is the connective tissue of that time? 

Also, Erika, something I've been curious about since Dominic posted this is how or how not a sense of possibility manifests across age by decade, ie, from someone your age today, to mine or Tim's or Dominic's, to Peter's. I often feel my immediate contemporaries are the least able to envision any kind of radical change to the status quo (&#038; utopian fantasies (mine) are SO UNCOOL/impractical); how much is that about what Dominic's describing above? And where the baby boomers have an--albeit often disenchanted--memory of certain forms of collective action, and maybe people your age have some kind of greater access to a sense of how to ask the right questions to get at a practical revolution? (Why are we talking about revolution in a comment box, and is this actually public space?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, yes, you just had to care beyond your class, but in the American suburbs how easy was it to get even a glimpse of anything beyond?  I think what Erika imagines is key, gathering and talking as something primarily different about the 60s&#8212;I think no matter what part of the world you&#8217;re imagining, or from, or what the particular local agendas or problems, is the connective tissue of that time? </p>
<p>Also, Erika, something I&#8217;ve been curious about since Dominic posted this is how or how not a sense of possibility manifests across age by decade, ie, from someone your age today, to mine or Tim&#8217;s or Dominic&#8217;s, to Peter&#8217;s. I often feel my immediate contemporaries are the least able to envision any kind of radical change to the status quo (&#038; utopian fantasies (mine) are SO UNCOOL/impractical); how much is that about what Dominic&#8217;s describing above? And where the baby boomers have an&#8211;albeit often disenchanted&#8211;memory of certain forms of collective action, and maybe people your age have some kind of greater access to a sense of how to ask the right questions to get at a practical revolution? (Why are we talking about revolution in a comment box, and is this actually public space?)</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-78</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 20:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-78</guid>
		<description>Timothy, thanks for your comments. Your angle on this makes it clear that it matters so much what part of the world you're from.  I can see that, from your American perspective, the late 60s means something quite different and specific (e.g. hippies, the Vietnam draft...). '68 will mean something different again if you're looking from Czechoslovakia, Japan or Mexico.  Sounds like the 80s in the U.S. was different from elsewhere too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timothy, thanks for your comments. Your angle on this makes it clear that it matters so much what part of the world you&#8217;re from.  I can see that, from your American perspective, the late 60s means something quite different and specific (e.g. hippies, the Vietnam draft&#8230;). &#8216;68 will mean something different again if you&#8217;re looking from Czechoslovakia, Japan or Mexico.  Sounds like the 80s in the U.S. was different from elsewhere too.</p>
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		<title>By: erika</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>erika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 18:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-77</guid>
		<description>"For me, it’s mainly about imagination and its blind spots. It’s about which alternatives have images and which don’t."

I’m 28.  To me 68 was a time where people were &lt;i&gt;gathering&lt;/i&gt; and people were &lt;i&gt;talking&lt;/i&gt; and also something a little bit mystical was happening in the air because youth in so many cities around the world said enough.  And they all felt that the time was right they were looking for the right time and they saw it and they acted.  They saw the open space and they jumped into it.  

Art didn’t inspire that.  That inspired art.

I would like to be tuned in to when the time is right.  I would like to say enough when I feel that time is upon me.  But how will I know, when that perfect moment arises to risk and act, that anyone will be there with me?  We don't meet and talk and gather in public spaces anymore. Gathering in public spaces is cheesy. Are we going to blog ourselves a revolution?  Has the time for revolution passed?  I think maybe.  But I also think, Dominic, that you said something really important here.  If there is a way, it's about

IMAGINATION AND ITS BLIND SPOTS

It reminds me that in order for us to find the &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; alternatives (and by that i mean separate from consumption and spectacle) we need to be more imaginative.  We need to be conscientiously enthralled and looking for the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For me, it’s mainly about imagination and its blind spots. It’s about which alternatives have images and which don’t.&#8221;</p>
<p>I’m 28.  To me 68 was a time where people were <i>gathering</i> and people were <i>talking</i> and also something a little bit mystical was happening in the air because youth in so many cities around the world said enough.  And they all felt that the time was right they were looking for the right time and they saw it and they acted.  They saw the open space and they jumped into it.  </p>
<p>Art didn’t inspire that.  That inspired art.</p>
<p>I would like to be tuned in to when the time is right.  I would like to say enough when I feel that time is upon me.  But how will I know, when that perfect moment arises to risk and act, that anyone will be there with me?  We don&#8217;t meet and talk and gather in public spaces anymore. Gathering in public spaces is cheesy. Are we going to blog ourselves a revolution?  Has the time for revolution passed?  I think maybe.  But I also think, Dominic, that you said something really important here.  If there is a way, it&#8217;s about</p>
<p>IMAGINATION AND ITS BLIND SPOTS</p>
<p>It reminds me that in order for us to find the <i>real</i> alternatives (and by that i mean separate from consumption and spectacle) we need to be more imaginative.  We need to be conscientiously enthralled and looking for the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Buckwalter</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Buckwalter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 03:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-73</guid>
		<description>@Dominic,

"We didn’t have any energizing, politicized sub-culture… so it was easy, too easy, for us to romanticize, even eroticize, the ‘60s."

Having grown up in the 80s (I was born in 1966), I cannot find anything more wrong with your statement.

The late 60s American anti-war movement was fueled mainly by a fear of the draft. The middle-class college students were being called up. They didn’t like it. Obviously, it was in their self-interest to stop it.  There was nothing, politicially, in the 80s that had any real directly adverse effect on middle-class youth. But there were plenty of movements afoot, you just had to care beyond your class: anti-apartheid, nuclear arms race, the environment, women's reproductive rights, the beginning of the War in Drugs.

No one I knew romaticized or eroticized the hippies. Even though herpes put a bit of a damper on free love, there was still plenty to go around. And plenty of wrongs to be righted. Sure, the Velvet Underground in their uber-coolness were idolized, but the crunchiness and self-indulgences of hippies drove my friends and I nuts. To this day, I avoid hippies of all ages (I was a punk in the 80s)

And yeah, new wave music became woosey and the goths were boring, but the DIY of 70s punk gave birth to the amazing alt rock of the 80s. Ignoring the coporate rock monster (much of it run by former hippies), youth created their own sound and sound.

I would have to agree with you when you write "Art, including cinema, is almost useless as a means of social change" because I'm assuming when you say "almost" you are thinking of the exceptions like Emery Douglas or the Chicano grahics movemnt who did help create social change. 



@Peter, 

In some incredibly broad sense we are about alternatives – but, really, who isn’t in that business these days? 

I don't think the world is as cut and dry as it was forty years ago. I think we now live in a place of choices.  I don't see how artists are specifically about alternatives anymore. It seems to me its about keeping the choices alive. After 40 years of art becoming more vulgar, Dave Hickey recently summed up the current era, as "on the verge of a period devoted to gradual refinement. You’ve got to recognize the end of things when they end…. Can you get more vulgar than Richard Prince?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dominic,</p>
<p>&#8220;We didn’t have any energizing, politicized sub-culture… so it was easy, too easy, for us to romanticize, even eroticize, the ‘60s.&#8221;</p>
<p>Having grown up in the 80s (I was born in 1966), I cannot find anything more wrong with your statement.</p>
<p>The late 60s American anti-war movement was fueled mainly by a fear of the draft. The middle-class college students were being called up. They didn’t like it. Obviously, it was in their self-interest to stop it.  There was nothing, politicially, in the 80s that had any real directly adverse effect on middle-class youth. But there were plenty of movements afoot, you just had to care beyond your class: anti-apartheid, nuclear arms race, the environment, women&#8217;s reproductive rights, the beginning of the War in Drugs.</p>
<p>No one I knew romaticized or eroticized the hippies. Even though herpes put a bit of a damper on free love, there was still plenty to go around. And plenty of wrongs to be righted. Sure, the Velvet Underground in their uber-coolness were idolized, but the crunchiness and self-indulgences of hippies drove my friends and I nuts. To this day, I avoid hippies of all ages (I was a punk in the 80s)</p>
<p>And yeah, new wave music became woosey and the goths were boring, but the DIY of 70s punk gave birth to the amazing alt rock of the 80s. Ignoring the coporate rock monster (much of it run by former hippies), youth created their own sound and sound.</p>
<p>I would have to agree with you when you write &#8220;Art, including cinema, is almost useless as a means of social change&#8221; because I&#8217;m assuming when you say &#8220;almost&#8221; you are thinking of the exceptions like Emery Douglas or the Chicano grahics movemnt who did help create social change. </p>
<p>@Peter, </p>
<p>In some incredibly broad sense we are about alternatives – but, really, who isn’t in that business these days? </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the world is as cut and dry as it was forty years ago. I think we now live in a place of choices.  I don&#8217;t see how artists are specifically about alternatives anymore. It seems to me its about keeping the choices alive. After 40 years of art becoming more vulgar, Dave Hickey recently summed up the current era, as &#8220;on the verge of a period devoted to gradual refinement. You’ve got to recognize the end of things when they end…. Can you get more vulgar than Richard Prince?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 19:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-72</guid>
		<description>“The thrall of May 68, like any thrall, should be resisted”--- 
Dominic, for me---also born in 1968, and also spending part of my 1980s youth idealizing that era---one of the things most attractive about the images of those alternatives was the feeling that ENTHRALLMENT ITSELF could produce, or was what DID produce, a certain possibility for social change. It’s a kind of madness, ie, ‘hopefulness’—especially in a time of ‘minimum social hope’ (now as then?)---exactly akin to fascination or thrall, that's needed.  One has to be a little crazy I think to believe in (thus work towards) a collectively harnessable energy that can change the shape of the world we live in, or any tiny part of. What was so terrible about coming of age in the 80s, as you point out above, is that there wasn’t any alternative: nothing to capture the imagination and instigate, nothing harnessable or hopeful at hand to be erotically charged by into clear social action. There wasn’t any thrall to resist OR engage.  This to say that I think I disagree—thrall shouldn’t be resisted, it should be instigated and cultivated. There’s got to be some effective medium ground between that enthrallment of the sixties that devolved into self-congratulatory fantasy ending famously and horribly at the (nearby) Altamont raceway; the idealization of the era; and a current collective cynicism that--if not exactly hopeless--keeps us from being foolish enough to think we could change the world. Conscientious enthrallment?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The thrall of May 68, like any thrall, should be resisted”&#8212;<br />
Dominic, for me&#8212;also born in 1968, and also spending part of my 1980s youth idealizing that era&#8212;one of the things most attractive about the images of those alternatives was the feeling that ENTHRALLMENT ITSELF could produce, or was what DID produce, a certain possibility for social change. It’s a kind of madness, ie, ‘hopefulness’—especially in a time of ‘minimum social hope’ (now as then?)&#8212;exactly akin to fascination or thrall, that&#8217;s needed.  One has to be a little crazy I think to believe in (thus work towards) a collectively harnessable energy that can change the shape of the world we live in, or any tiny part of. What was so terrible about coming of age in the 80s, as you point out above, is that there wasn’t any alternative: nothing to capture the imagination and instigate, nothing harnessable or hopeful at hand to be erotically charged by into clear social action. There wasn’t any thrall to resist OR engage.  This to say that I think I disagree—thrall shouldn’t be resisted, it should be instigated and cultivated. There’s got to be some effective medium ground between that enthrallment of the sixties that devolved into self-congratulatory fantasy ending famously and horribly at the (nearby) Altamont raceway; the idealization of the era; and a current collective cynicism that&#8211;if not exactly hopeless&#8211;keeps us from being foolish enough to think we could change the world. Conscientious enthrallment?</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 17:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Who is the 'we' you refer to above, Peter? May I out you as a museum staff person of the baby boom generation and ask you to be more specific? What alternatives are being proposed, and alternative to what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is the &#8216;we&#8217; you refer to above, Peter? May I out you as a museum staff person of the baby boom generation and ask you to be more specific? What alternatives are being proposed, and alternative to what?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Samis</title>
		<link>http://blog.sfmoma.org/2008/05/07/68-at-40/#comment-68</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Samis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 18:40:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.sfmoma.org/?p=173#comment-68</guid>
		<description>Alternatives, or "Tout pouvoir a l'imagination!" as the French slogan had it. All power to the Imagination--vs. the sclerotic, roadblocked "life" of the Establishment, whose representtives hadn't come up with Thatcher's There Is No Alternative phrase yet because they didn't yet realize they actually had to dialogue with the youth who were throwing alternatives--and a lot of other things--in their face.

We're still all about alternatives. Isn't that what artists DO?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alternatives, or &#8220;Tout pouvoir a l&#8217;imagination!&#8221; as the French slogan had it. All power to the Imagination&#8211;vs. the sclerotic, roadblocked &#8220;life&#8221; of the Establishment, whose representtives hadn&#8217;t come up with Thatcher&#8217;s There Is No Alternative phrase yet because they didn&#8217;t yet realize they actually had to dialogue with the youth who were throwing alternatives&#8211;and a lot of other things&#8211;in their face.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re still all about alternatives. Isn&#8217;t that what artists DO?</p>
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